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Post by xman on Nov 13, 2017 8:58:41 GMT -5
So, with Kamen Rider Build currently airing, and with a new set villains. I have to ask. Out of all the villain characters and grouos we have gotten so far, who do you think are the best and worst ones in the Heisei-era. That also includes movie-exclusive villain characters as well.
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Post by Sh Ranger on Nov 13, 2017 10:07:11 GMT -5
This is an interesting subject. There are really cool and intimidating villains but there are also lame ones.
Best:
Kamen Rider Eternal/Daidou Katsumi. Cool as both a villain in the movie and an antihero in Returns. An undying zombie NEVER that wants to turn everyone else like him.
Kamen Rider Gaoh/Gaoh. He had a prosthetic arm like Riderman and an awesome suit that was sadly scrapped to make Yuuki. He tried to destroy time and hijacked a train.
Kamen Rider Dark Drive/Paradox Roidmude/108. Manipulated the sabotage of Drive Driver and Eiji's death to interfere in time and start an eternal Global Freeze.
Sigma. The final villain of Drive and strongest invention of Banno programmed to make a Global Freeze strong enough to stop people from moving while Banno conquered the world.
Kamen Rider Genm/Genm X/Dan Kuroto. This guy was the most evil 2-faced CEO before Masamune showed up. He killed characters like Kiriya and Burgmon without remorse or mercy.
Cassis Worm. Hyper Kabuto was OP with his showy finishers and time reversal but Cassis can just freeze him completely and duplicate himself. A strong opponent.
Foundation X. They're like the Shocker of Heisei. They're responsible for a lot of evil plots like W's movie and finale, Movie War Core and Megamax, Brave's special crossover and now Heisei Generations Final.
Worst:
Kamen Rider Jam/Female Kougane. I liked Kougane as Mars in the movie with his horse but then she just shows up randomly in the finale and it's ridiculous.
Kamen Rider Ryugen/Fake Zangetsu/Kureshima Mitsuzane. I hated this guy ever since the press conference where he was a grape rider. His redemption attempt was OOC and inconceivable.
Kamen Rider Yuuki. Just a reminder that Gaoh used to be a cool suit and how mediocre Final Countdown was compared to other Den-O movies that came before.
Els. Strongest of the Unknowns. They didn't do much though. Water just possessed someone for a while and capsized a boat in the backstory and I barely recall what the others did.
Unidentified Lifeform #0. Final villain of Kuuga that was around since the first episode but the big anticipated fight with #4 was a little anticlimactic even with the nice backdrop.
Kamen Rider Dark Ghost/Extremer/Argos. His whole plan to turn people in to ghosts was a ripoff of Eternal and "ghosts need bodies" and Darwin having evolution powers was dumb.
Da Vinci. None of the time travel stuff made sense and he never even existed in the canon of Ghost and Drive so he didn't really kill Tenkuuji Ryu. Adel did.
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Post by Kaizoku Blue on Nov 13, 2017 11:23:04 GMT -5
Best: N-Daguva-Zeba (Kuuga) - I feel he is the single most vicious and menacing villain of Heisei Kamen Rider, and he's my favourite example of a final villain executed well. Ra-Baruba-De (Kuuga) - Probably the character that has the second most effect in making the Grongi among the best villains the show has ever had. She also proves that you can have a female villain with a sexy human form and still not have her exist for fanservice or to fall in love with anyone. Writers of other shows, take note. Takeshi Asakura / Kamen Rider Ouja (Ryuki) - He was so well written and acted, one of the most chilling characters I have ever seen in tokusatsu. Even though he's eliminated before the end of the story, his presence still provides an impact in the finale because of the fact that the time reset at the end of the series brings him back to life along with the heroic Riders Shiro Kanzaki (Ryuki) - He causes a huge amount of pain and suffering, making him a successful villain; but when you look at why he did it, and how futile his actions ultimately were, it underlines the tragedy of the entire plot. Yuuji Kiba / Horse Orphenoch (Faiz) - While a lot of people rightly criticise Faiz for the fact that half the plot wouldn't happen if Takumi and Kiba could have a simple conversation, I think his arc was well-executed in that it allows you to see how and why he changed from such a genuinely nice, good person into what he became, and this adds a lot of emphasis to what makes the plight of the Orphenochs tragic Redyue (Gaim) - IMO the best female villain of Heisei-era Kamen Rider. She proves you can have a truly evil villain with no redeeming qualities and not have them be a stereotype. It's become increasingly rare to see villains without a redemption arc or at least some kind of "sympathetic" spin on them, and even rarer for a female villain. Kuroto Dan / Kamen Rider Genm (Ex-Aid) - The actor has a lot of personality and energy that really shone through in his role. The character degenerated into "meme" status as the show went on, but I still found him enjoyable to watch and think he was in his absolute best in the first arc; when he was more restrained and a lot more sinister as a character. Worst: All main V-Cinema villains from Gaim onwards - They retcon TV canon (sometimes huge parts of TV canon) while we're expected to believe they were there the whole time. Many of them have powers that warp the logic of the TV canon's universe e.g. Idunn having powers that only Kouta and Kaito, who are literal gods, have. The least worst is probably Tyrant, who was just boring, but even then his presence was still hugely contrived. Smart Lady (Faiz) - Blatant fanservice object Ryo Itoya / Spider Fangire (Kiva) - In a show where every female character is a love interest for a guy (sometimes more than one), where they are all treated poorly by men, and where Otoya Kurenai exists, what we REALLY needed was a villain whose defining feature is liking to sexually harass women ... not! Ramon (Kiva) and Mezul (OOO) - Same problem: They're pre-teen kids with a creepy, inappropriate "pregnancy / babies / reproduction" theme that was deliberately given to the only child in a cast of otherwise adult villains. Katsumi Daidou / Kamen Rider Eternal (W) - My issue with him was that he and the entire NEVER mythos were introduced very late and felt like something that belonged to a completely different show. Its only real impact on the main story was that Kazu turned out to be a NEVER; but he too was not a very good villain and was shoehorned in very late in the game. Eternal was also introduced to have Mitsuru Matsuoka in the movie - I don't like characters that are written around actors or created just to have a specific person star. Kamen Rider Core (Movie Wars Core) - Exists solely as a CGI effect that hasn't dated well. Yoko Minato / Kamen Rider Malika (Gaim) - Every single sexist cliche about female villains in one: her costume is pink and covered in heart-shapes, peach motif (associated with femininity / female sexuality in Japan), constant fanservice shots, "falls in love" with Kaito and subsequently her entire character revolves around him, and is the only Rider who isn't allowed to want the fruit's power themselves or try to take it for themselves. Yes, Minami Tsukui is a very skilled stunt actress but that doesn't make Minato a good character. |
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Post by dj1107 on Nov 13, 2017 18:28:25 GMT -5
Kai from Den-O for worst honestly. He was just a real unnecessary element to the series & I for the life of me can't remember what his goals were exactly if he had any.
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Post by xman on Nov 13, 2017 21:16:21 GMT -5
Katsumi Daidou / Kamen Rider Eternal (W) - My issue with him was that he and the entire NEVER mythos were introduced very late and felt like something that belonged to a completely different show. Its only real impact on the main story was that Kazu turned out to be a NEVER; but he too was not a very good villain and was shoehorned in very late in the game. Eternal was also introduced to have Mitsuru Matsuoka in the movie - I don't like characters that are written around actors or created just to have a specific person star. Yoko Minato / Kamen Rider Malika (Gaim) - Every single sexist cliche about female villains in one: her costume is pink and covered in heart-shapes, peach motif (associated with femininity / female sexuality in Japan), constant fanservice shots, "falls in love" with Kaito and subsequently her entire character revolves around him, and is the only Rider who isn't allowed to want the fruit's power themselves or try to take it for themselves. Yes, Minami Tsukui is a very skilled stunt actress but that doesn't make Minato a good character. Yeah, about Eternal and the NEVER mythos being introduced so late in the game, I'd say it's mostly Toei's fault for teasing us that this movie is tied to the main TV storyline of Kamen Rider W. But you can't really blame it all on Riku Sanjou, since this was his first experience in writing a new Kamen Rider TV show and movie that respects and honors the legacy of the Showa-era Kamen Rider TV shows and the history behind the Kamen Rider mythos. And from what I have been hearing, Sanjou-san really does care about honoring the legacy and history behind noteable Tokusatsu shows. Hence why, he got Deka Yellow's actress to play Kyoryu Blue's sister, Go-On Black's actor playing Kyoryu Black's partner, Kyoryu Green's parents being played noteably by Goggle Black/Dyna Black and Dyna Pink's actors, respectively and Kyoryu Gray I & II being played by Bouken Silver's actor in Kyoryuger. And yes, Riku Sanjou also did Kyoryuger, which ironically isn't all "Daigo-centric" as we all thought it was. Nor was it a light-hearted, silly, comedic sentai series that Toeiwanted. But yeah, the origin story/prequel of Eternal in the W Returns Kamen Rider Eternal V-Cinema...that was just stupid. And I mean it...It really was stupid, and it made Katsumi Daidou and his gang look like freaking idiots in Forever A to Z. Now Youko-san/Kamen Rider Marika...Okay, exactly how and why is she labeled as a villain, again?! I thought she was just an assistant to Ryoma Sengoku. Or his secretary, or bodyguard or something. I didn't really think of her as a villain character. Plus, she was only blindly following Kaitou around all because the producers and writers tried to set up some kind of forced romance subplot between them, but it didn't really go anywhere. So yeah, this is serious case of bad script-writing and poor tv episode directing skills. I am not blaming this on the actress. She did not do anything wrong here. It's the episode staff writers, producers and directors who are the real problem. Again, how is Ryoma Sengoku's assistant a villain character in Kamen Rider Gaim? I have always thought of her as nothing more but just a secretary character. That and her death scene in Gaim was just dumb. Although I would say that her character in the Gorider netmovies was somewhat redeemable as she, Another Agito, Kiriya and Kaitou sacrifice themselves to save Emu and Kenzaki at the end othe third chapter. But I wouldn't say it was enough to fully justify that she probably wasn't well-written as an actual character in Gaim. It was still a bad retcon, in my opinion. |
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Post by Kaizoku Blue on Nov 14, 2017 2:42:10 GMT -5
^ Minato's a villain because she works with two other villains (Ryouma and later Kaito when *he* is a villain) and helps them in their schemes. Looking at Build for instance, Utsumi is Himuro's secretary, but he's still very much a villain
I take your point re Eternal, but then Sanjo continued to introduce new villains very late in the show even when he was writing Kyoryuger and Drive. I suppose it comes with the territory of being an anime writer
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Post by dj1107 on Nov 14, 2017 3:28:54 GMT -5
Haven't Watched it yet but Sagara from Gaim might be best villain in that he basically got away with his evil plans.
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Post by xman on Nov 14, 2017 5:37:46 GMT -5
Minato's a villain because she works with two other villains (Ryouma and later Kaito when *he* is a villain) and helps them in their schemes. Looking at Build for instance, Utsumi is Himuro's secretary, but he's still very much a villain Again, that's just bad writing, in my opinion. It's literally the only thing that I can think of about Youko-san helping out Ryoma and Kaitou in their plans for like world domination or whatever, and for like blindly following Kaitou around for seemingly no reason in the later arc.... bad writing. I mean, if she was being given a better purpose to exist or at least had a much better role into becoming a female Kamen Rider in the show, instead of blindly taking orders from a mad sciemtist and later on, blindly following a former street dancer that became an Overlord in the final battle, that would be interesting to watch. But nope, that didn't happened. You see, good writing could possibly save a villain character from being terrible on-screen, even if the actor isn't being given much to do or work with at all. But bad writing, and probably, studio interference and bad retcons could just doom a villain character for being considered as a more memorable one, or even be taken seriously as a threat to the main heroes on-screen. However, in the case of characters not being given a free will to decide for themselves, that was a huge cardinal sin for writers and TV producers and executives to commit. And that's why I considered Youko-san's character to be among the more horribly-written female characters in Kamen Rider, next to Aria/Dark Necron P from Kamen Rider Ghost. But that's just pretty much how bordeline sexist Toei could be when it comes to making female characters, Kamen Riders. With the only a few exceptions, but that's a different story. Now I may have to about Smart Lady being classified as a "villain" character in Kamen Rider Faiz, when honestly, and this is also my opinion, and to reference Dr. Evil in Austin Powers: The Spy Who Shagged Me...I didn't think Smart Lady was really quite evil enough to be classified as a true villain character in Faiz. She's like quasi-evil, she's semi-evil, she's the margerine of evil, she's the diet coke of evil. Just one calorie, "Not evil enough!" Now is she annoying?! Yes. But full-on evil?! HELL NO!!! She literally couldn't cut with the whole dramatic evil glare and stare scenes in several episodes. In my eyes, she is just another useless side-character that's only exist in the franchise to do three things in Faiz's TV show...1) be a pointless sex object that is meant to attract horny teenage boys, 2) drive around in her fancy blue car and recruiting ramdom Orphnochs of the street, because that's all she is in the show...a messenger and nothing else, and 3) just be a total nuisance because, "bad comedy!" That's all I can say about Smart Lady being considered as a "villain" character. Useless, annoying and kind of a sex object in the show. Kind of like a pre-existing Japanese Leelee Pimvare from Power Rangers Mystic Force, if you'd ask me. |
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Post by Sh Ranger on Nov 14, 2017 10:23:06 GMT -5
Minato Youko had the potential to be a good character and it's not often an actress does her own stunts. Shame she was thoughtlessly wasted on an accessory plot device to Kaito. Oh right, another villain I didn't like. Kaito should've stayed an antihero.
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Post by xman on Nov 14, 2017 13:02:31 GMT -5
I guess so, Sh Ranger. But, yeah, Kaitou should have stayed as an anti-hero instead of a villain character.
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Post by sixthrangerfan on Nov 15, 2017 3:26:22 GMT -5
Alright time to give it a go. However, I'm gonna split between Heisei and Neo.
Heisei Best:
Blade: Loved the structure of the playing card deck. There were also those who just wanted to live on. They also had some fierce looking monsters.
Kabuto: Honestly the concept behind the mimics is a bit terrifying. They can be anyone, memories and all. Plus their final plot was actually pretty good, making other mimics.
Neo-Heisei Best:
OOO: The Greeed are good villains mostly because of their character. Dr. Maki is pretty fearsome. The Greeed were sympathetic even if they terrorized people. Uva had a sad ending forced upon him. Mezool just wanted love. Gamel was super innocent for a Greeed. Kazari got what he deserved though. The group as a whole lasted until the end which is a bit rare. Most villains in the Neo-Heisei era shift with each third of the story.
Fourze: A simple reason, I like the astrology theme. Plus the Zodiac being the higher tier was cool and the main 4 lasted for quite awhile.
Heisei Worst:
Den-O: Not that I dont like the Imagin, but I just felt like there was no real direction with them, even after Kai led them.
Neo-Heisei Worst:
W: I just didn't like the shift from Sonozakis to Foundation X. Yes it was more of a behind the scenes villain due to being a detective show but these two factions weren't that great.
Honorable Mentions: So some of the others here may have a bad group but I think one in the group helps redeem them as a whole
Heisei:
Faiz:Lucky Clover for Smart Brain
Neo-Heisei:
Wizard: Gremlin, one of the first psycho villains that made it worth it.
Drive: The Roidmude Trio, good characters who get sympathy even when they hurt people
Ex-Aid: Chronos, again, don't like the shift in main villains, especially the reused bugstar costumes, but his psychotic final villain was great.
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Post by xman on Nov 16, 2017 10:58:27 GMT -5
Well, now that I have finished my rewatch on Kamen Rider Wizard, I have a lot to say about the majority of the villains in that show, and I have been personally saving up a huge rant fir Phoenix and Medusa's characters, now that I have gotten a chance to revisit the show. So here it goes....
I HATE PHOENIX AND MEDUSA BECAUSE THEY ARE SO FREAKING STUPID AND TERRIBLE AT BEING VILLAINS!!! WHY DO THESE TWO SUCK AT BEING VILLAINS, WHY ARE YOU SO DAMN TERRIBLE AT YOUR JOBS?! They have literally done nothing, but pad their presence in the show for about 40-something episodes, until it was time for them to die and I say it's because the show haven't given any of their actors that much to do at all. I mean, seriously, producers. If you don't have anything for yor actors to do, stop forcing them to exist!!! Phoenix was sadly reduced as wasted potential, but Medusa was even worse. She's like a female version of Harvest from the DC comic book crossover, "The Culling" of the New 52 relaunch. Great villain design, but horribly wasted on a badly-written character. Same goes for all the other phantom of the week characters. But I would've preferred if they were more like the orgs from Gaoranger were they were allowed to do whatever they want and have their personal agendas for being evil. Let them have their own free will, and make them more interesting or fun to watch, Toei! And that's it.
Anyways, here's my list of best and worst Kamen Rider villain characters....
Best:
-Foundation X
-Gremlin
-Fueki Sou/Wiseman/White Wizard
-Kamen Rider #4
-Takeshi Asakura/Kamen Rider Ouja
-Kazari
-The Zodiarts
-The Akumaizers
-Space Shocker
-The Golden Mage
-Dan Kuruto
Worst:
-The Phantoms, especially Phoenix and Medusa
-Mezool
-Gamel
-Adel, yeah he sucks
-Dai Shocker
-Mitsuzane Kureshima/Kamen Rider Ryugen
and that's it, for now.
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Post by Gokai Gaburincho on Dec 18, 2017 14:20:32 GMT -5
Of all the KR shows I've seen so far (W-current), Micchy is the only one I don't like. I hate Micchy. He singlehandedly brought Gaim down from great to good for me, and is the reason I think that show is overrated. It's still good, but overrated.
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