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Post by dj1107 on Oct 29, 2017 20:09:45 GMT -5
Having just finished Wizard it's not entirely out of possibility to say Magic was evil considering not only Fueki/White Wizard/Wiseman goals with it but also The movie exclusive villains usage of it (& even then that wasn't the goal of Wizard it was about never losing Hope)....
I think my biggest problem with Takeru now that I think about it is how he just seems to disregard creating a time paradox. Reviving himself is one thing since I assume that when he does time isn't just going to reset when he's done but his dad's been dead for 10 years You're seriously going to jepordise the whole timeline just so your dad will live? You're about as irresponsible with time-travel on the likes of Wataru trying to abort himself back in Kiva.
Would've been a decent conundrum to focus on but instead we gotta focus on 10 minutes of a bizarre comedy act between Drive's police chief & the Sage.
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Post by Kaizoku Blue on Oct 30, 2017 9:32:25 GMT -5
^ Wizard certainly made the point that magic could be *used* for evil, but not that it was in itself a bad thing. The moral of Genesis where Takeru was concerned would be like if there'd been a Wizard movie saying that magic was inherently bad and Haruto was wrong for wanting to use it
I think it's worth pointing out that the concept of "time paradox" isn't universal to time travel stories; just common. I don't think there's anything wrong with Genesis not using it, when the movie didn't suggest that calamitous effects would result from Takeru intervening - it just took an attitude of "he was meant to die and that shouldn't be changed." Maybe the effects of Takeru's potential interference should have been explored in more detail but what we got doesn't really break the story's internal logic (loose though that was)
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Post by Sh Ranger on Oct 30, 2017 9:47:30 GMT -5
^ I agree, it's the worst Movie War I watched. There's no way it could be canon since Adel killed Tenkuuji Ryu in the series, not Da Vinci, Takeru's birth/death day doesn't match with the series and Toucon Boost Damashii is not called Tou-san Damashii. Which is weird since Takeru and Shinnosuke are familiar with each other in Heisei Generations. Yes, Takeru and Shinnosuke met in Drive itself There is no way that the movie can logically fit into Ghost's TV canon: it's set between episodes 10 and 11, yet Takeru and Makoto are friends (they didn't repair their friendship until episode 12) and Saionji is alive (he died in episode 10). The worst thing about the movie for me, however, is Takeru learning that he can't change the past and shouldn't try to revive the dead - even though his main goal in the show is to change the past and revive himself from the dead, which he eventually succeeds in! It's basically teaching the audience not to get behind him as a hero, since what he wants isn't right or possible. It's like a Wizard movie that tries to give a fundamentalist Christian message about sorcery being evil, or a Fourze movie with the moral "hey, you know what? Space exploration is kinda dangerous, maybe we should just leave it alone." Didn't Shinnosuke only see Ghost, not Takeru in person? In Heisei Generations, they greet each other like they're buddies. Those are also good reasons why Super Movie War Genesis cannot fit in the series continuity. Takeru tried to revive his father in canon without changing time after their souls combined to give him another 99 days and Toucon Boost Damashii. In the end, he still failed to revive him and only saved his soul. It would have made the ending even more touching with their reunion. Interfering in the timeline rarely has a good outcome but it made sense for Takeru's character, a truly heroic rider who values life after experiencing death and even the partial destruction of his soul. Other formerly dead riders like Fourze and Drive got lucky compared to this guy.
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Post by Kaizoku Blue on Oct 30, 2017 10:11:43 GMT -5
^ IIRC Takeru appeared as Ghost in the penultimate episode of Drive, and out of suit in the final episode?
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Post by Sh Ranger on Oct 30, 2017 10:23:31 GMT -5
^ According to the Wiki page for that episode and my own recollection, Takeru never appeared out of suit.
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Post by purplecreator on Oct 30, 2017 10:25:41 GMT -5
Why are we talking about Drive when this is about Ghost???
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Post by Kaizoku Blue on Oct 30, 2017 11:10:46 GMT -5
^ It is about Ghost - in context of when Takeru met Shinnosuke and therefore the events of Movie Wars Genesis, which was primarily focused on Takeru.
I don't know why I thought Takeru had been out of suit ... then again not a lot about this movie makes sense
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Post by xman on Oct 31, 2017 9:18:40 GMT -5
I think it's worth pointing out that the concept of "time paradox" isn't universal to time travel stories; just common. I don't think there's anything wrong with Genesis not using it, when the movie didn't suggest that calamitous effects would result from Takeru intervening - it just took an attitude of "he was meant to die and that shouldn't be changed." Maybe the effects of Takeru's potential interference should have been explored in more detail but what we got doesn't really break the story's internal logic (loose though that was) I always thought that Takeru's father dying in Chou Movie Taisen Genesis was another cheap attempt to retcon the events of Ghost's story. But, I have noticed the TV stock footage of Ryu Tenkujii's death in the movie, and I made the conclusion that while Takeru's father was going to die one way or another, it's just that the events of Chou Movie Taisen Genesis will be immediately forgotten and that they're only going to ignore that movie's version of Ryu's death since it holds no place in the main TV continuity of Kamen Rider Ghost and just stick with him being murdered by Adel in the show. I just thought it was another pointless death scene in the movie that didnt even need to be retconned in the first place.
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Post by dj1107 on Nov 4, 2017 2:43:45 GMT -5
So 15 episodes in & the plot appears to take a completely alternate direction. I mean ok Takeru collecting Eyecons would've gotten old by this point but it feel's like a very different show now that the we have New villains, The Eyecons are actual characters now. Still a lot of good things present though Takeru has started to become my favorite Rider I like the Toucon Boost form, & I'm enjoying this bigger mystery going on.
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Post by xman on Nov 5, 2017 23:45:55 GMT -5
Be warned about the continuity placements of Kamen Rider #1 (2016) and Ghost's summer movie, dj1107. #1 (2016) is supposed to be set in between eps. 20 & 21 and the summer movie is set in between eps. 42 & 43 of Ghost's main storyline, respectively. But you have to watch the legendary rider eyecon netmovies before the movie, "Kamen Rider #1" and the legendary Kamen Rider #1 eyecon chapter, because the movie has the legendary rider eyecons making brief appearances and it expects you to watch those netmovies to know how Takeru and Makoto got them.
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Post by purplecreator on Nov 6, 2017 9:41:56 GMT -5
I watched most of the Legend Rider Eyecon net movies. And I got it on DVD with my Rider 45 Eyecon. But the DVD won't work on my TV.
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Post by xman on Nov 6, 2017 22:16:17 GMT -5
I am sorry to hear that, man.
But I am still trying to figure out what the actual hell was the morivation behind the fake Makoto arc in the show. So, Adel created multiple clones of Makoto just to draw confusion to our heroes by weakening Makoto, just to what?! gain more knowledge about why Takeru was the key?! Why wasn't the fake Makoto just programmed to I don't know...kill the real Makoto and usurp Takeru and the gang by pretending to be the real one and then be revealed to be a loyal servant/creation of Adel this whole time?! Then go through a sudden change of heart after developing some human emotions and some of the real Makoto's memories and betray Adel at the end to go and apologize and do some soul-searching or something?! I mean, this fake Makoto arc is one of the most confusing story-arcs in the history of tokusatsu. I mean, Alain's arc made more sense then this. Even Argos being Dark Ghost and the Kiva's AR world arc in Kamen Rider Decade made more sense then this.
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Post by purplecreator on Nov 6, 2017 22:22:06 GMT -5
Yeah! You'd think all DVDs would work regardless of region.
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Post by xman on Nov 6, 2017 22:45:12 GMT -5
No, not me.
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Post by Sh Ranger on Nov 7, 2017 9:53:50 GMT -5
I am sorry to hear that, man. But I am still trying to figure out what the actual hell was the morivation behind the fake Makoto arc in the show. So, Adel created multiple clones of Makoto just to draw confusion to our heroes by weakening Makoto, just to what?! gain more knowledge about why Takeru was the key?! Why wasn't the fake Makoto just programmed to I don't know...kill the real Makoto and usurp Takeru and the gang by pretending to be the real one and then be revealed to be a loyal servant/creation of Adel this whole time?! Then go through a sudden change of heart after developing some human emotions and some of the real Makoto's memories and betray Adel at the end to go and apologize and do some soul-searching or something?! I mean, this fake Makoto arc is one of the most confusing story-arcs in the history of tokusatsu. I mean, Alain's arc made more sense then this. Even Argos being Dark Ghost and the Kiva's AR world arc in Kamen Rider Decade made more sense then this. The Specter doppelgangers were confusing but I thought it was an interesting plot and hey they had to give Specter something to do while Takeru and Alain were destroying Ganmaizers and learning about emotions and philosophy from the 15 heroes. I had a solid understanding of what was happening until the Specter movie elaborated on it. So basically if I'm right then the Ganmaizers fragmented Specter's soul using the Deep Ghost Icon and Adel had the fragments possess 15 of Danton's Specter clones, the only ones that weren't abominations. Yet Danton still deemed those as failures for some reason. This explains why Specter was in pain everytime he destroyed a doppelganger since it damaged his soul. The doppelganger's sacrifice in the end allowed it to become whole once more. It seems Adel and the Ganmaizers planned on Specter obtaining the Deep Ghost Icon since the Ganmaizers used it to resurrect themselves and hijack the Great Eye after Ghost Mugen Damashii destroyed them all. That's how I think it works with Deep drawing power from Ganmaizers and Specter and Kanon essentially coming from a series of androids in Ganma World.
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